C-Realm Podcast #64: Attention and Devotion

[KMO]

Episode 64: Attention and Devotion (http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2007-11-14T17_52_11-08_00)

http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/2007-11-14T17_52_11-08_00.jpg
(http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2007-11-14T17_52_11-08_00)
In this episode, KMO concludes his talk with meditation instructor Heidi Smith of the Center for Soulful Living and then rounds out the discussion of the relative merits of drug-free meditation vs. entheogen-assisted explorations of consciousness with Jan Irvin of Gnostic Media (http://www.gnosticmedia.com/) and Daniel Siebert of the The Salvia divinorum Research and Information Center (http://www.sagewisdom.org).

Show notes: http://kmo.livejournal.com/322545.html

[TirikiteToker]

Wow, great stuff as always. Jan Irvin and Daniel Siebert, almost in 3-way interview! Daniel Siebert always makes sense to me, and each of the podcasts (Psych Salon, Psychonautica, now C-Realm) I've heard featuring him are among my faves.

Tomorrow is Psychonautica so I wonder if it's too short notice for us to hear a full response from Max?

[KMO]

Jan Irvin and Daniel Siebert, almost in 3-way interview!

I had Daniel and Jan on the "phone" at the same time, and they did interact with one another, but I had to trim those bits to fit in the stuff I wanted everyone to hear.

Glad you liked it. I'll be surprised if Max has time to incorporate the material from number 64 into tomorrow's Psychonautica.

Peace be unto you, TT.

-KMO

[max_freakout]

im one podcast behind everyone else at the moment!

Can't wait to hear this one anyway....

[Xochipilli2012]

Hey KMO,

Great show, as always!

The direction of Heidi's story surprised me a bit, as I didn't expect her to maintain such an austere perspective, given where I thought things were headed in episode 93...errrr 63! :p It seems that her willingness to enjoy "sacred flowers" again on a regular basis, and the occasional mushroom trip, was a huge breakthrough for her. But given that there are many on the Raja Yoga path who would consider such activities to be apostate, she's probably something of a rebel within her tradition.

Jan's views on meditation seemed a bit "uninformed" initially, to the degree that he makes any direct comparison to the actual states delivered vis-a-vis meditation and entheogen use. If he practiced as much meditation as he claims, and if it were with that aim, I sort of wonder what specifically he was up to. If I were Hoffman I would call this the "Presumed Equality of Imaginal States Fallacy." :D

It was good to get Daniel's comments about the states and purposes of entheogens as related to non-drug mystical states as being distinct and non-comparable, unless you are doing an apples to oranges thing. Furthermore, the recognition that each entheogen has it's own distinctly unique "realm" (at least they are recognizably so once you've gotten deep enough into them) is important to remember. And now I'm forgetting which of them talked about the need to have enough experience with a state to really begin to appreciate and know it, but I think it was Jan, and this too is quite valid according to my own experience. Just as with the practice of certain forms of meditation and other contemplative disciplines, the more one deliberately works with a particular ally, the "better" one gets "at it."

Overall, both Daniel and Jan provided really nice counter-points to Heidi Smith's perspectives and I'm really glad you had them on the program. It would have been nice to have heard their interaction, of course, so I look forward to the day when you've got better telephone recording technology. It's astonishing that you're achieving such high production values with what you've been using thus far. Good on you, mate!

At the end of the day I feel gratified that all three of your guests, with varying degrees of emphasis (depending on where their path was focused), supported a "holistic" approach that values both entheogens and non-drug disciplines. For me, this is the most intelligent approach--and how much one emphasizes one thing over another is a personal choice that is certainly open to further discussion.

I'll be listening to the show again and following the conversation here, so perhaps I'll have more to say later.

Very enjoyable set of shows, KMO. Thanks so much for devoting some of your time and energy to this topic!

(Now...any idea about when you might be able to get Martin Ball on ;) ??)

Peace.

[KMO]

(Now...any idea about when you might be able to get Martin Ball on ;) ??)

I just got off the phone with Martin, and we're going to record something for this coming week's show tomorrow night. Here's part of a comment that Martin left on my MySpace page:

I work with international students (mostly from mainland China right now), and I just finished teaching a class on "Deep Thoughts" where I try and challenge their views of reality. We always like to combine learning skills, so having a text recitation is always helpful with their reading (maybe you can guess where this is going?), so the other day I had them reading Quetzalcoatl's transmission with you reading it on your podcast - too fun!

Should be fun.

[Little Elf]

Sorry I'm not caught up. I try to only listen in the greenhouse, and well its winter and its hard to listen and move plants around. But while cleaning geraniums or making cuttings (haven't done it yet but I was told we usually take 10's of thousands of cuttings) your show is a treat:)

[KMO]

Sorry I'm not caught up. I try to only listen in the greenhouse...

That's marvelous. I can't think of a better environment (other than perhaps an outdoor garden on a comfortably sunny and temperate day) for listening to the podcast. No need to stay up to date. The archive will be there when you're ready.

Thanks, Little Elf.

[fortytwo]

I'm new to the forum, but I've listened to all the podcasts since I discovered it about 6 months ago. (I have an hour-long commute to my job, and I was burning through the Psychedelic Salon faster than Lorenzo could make them.)

The C-Realm has taken a turn for the better and the show is getting really engaging now that KMO has taken a less journalistic and more participant role in the show. He's very humble about his contribution to the conversation and, better, skeptical and open-minded. (At last more open-minded than I would be.) This show has become a remarkable repository for so many ideas on the minds of awake and conscious people, keep up the good work.

I'm not very interested in the Meditation vs. Psychedelic debate (at least in the context of SCOPE, but yes, they are both ways of altering consciousness, but by no means is a meditative state ever psychedelic), and I think Jan Irvin puts that to bed for good (A carpenter doesn't wake up one day and drive nails with his head or fist. I lol'd.)

But I did like Heidi's interview. I hope she can come back some time and talk at length about the more difficult-to-achieve states of consciousness that she has achieved with as many years of Raja Yoga under her belt as she has. I don't think it is like the psychedelic experience at all, but I'm still curious.

But the best part of this episode was that little insight into KMO's earlier life when he took "drugs" for purely entertaining purposes and the path to enlightenment that comes, for so many of us, out of fortunate serendipity, a vision shared by a sacred plant.

*One more thing - my vote for a Guest Idea, a Science Fiction author.

[KMO]

One more thing - my vote for a Guest Idea, a Science Fiction author.

I'd love to have some SF writers on the show. When I interviewed Stephen Gaskin, he told me that science fiction had expanded his consciousness more that psychedelics had, and I think the same may be true for me, but the two for me are rather like meditation and entheogens; complementary but neither one able to completely stand in for the other.

I've asked Charles Stross to appear on the show a few times, but as yet, no luck. I've also asked David Marusek, but he did not reply to my email. I'd love to get Gene Wolf or Dan Simmons on the show. I don't think there's much hope of getting someone as high profile as David Brin or Greg Bear, so I haven't even bothered to invite them. I'd also like to get Nancy Kress on the program, but again, I haven't asked her.

Given that Vernor Vinge is a friend of Matt Pallamary (whom I have interviewed for Psychonautica and who will be appearing on C-Realm after his next book is published), I can imagine getting him on the show, but that's certainly not a chicken I'd care to count before it has hatched.

If you have anyone in particular in mind, do forward their contact information, and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for listening and for providing feedback.

[Samwise Ganja]

Hey KMO, I´ve recently asked Hermann Maurer from Graz University of Technology if he would be interested in doing an interview on the C Realm. He hasn´t got back to me yet, but I thought I might mention it here.

In addition to his academic background (you really should check out his webiste and see what he is involved with) Hermann Maurer is the editor of a science fiction series, The Xperts, which explores themes of computer technology combined with strange and wonderful mental powers.

His website is at
http://www.iicm.tugraz.at/maurer?timestamp=1196451411275

and the SF series Xperts is at
http://www.iicm.tugraz.at/home/hm_hp/XPERTEN

Btw, I have a novel published within this series also "The Parashield" (2004) which explores a young Australian man´s life as he comes to grips with his parability, a mental shield around which he can protect his body. The book is set in Perth, Western Australia (my home town) and reads like an action film with some great moments of suspense.

Also, love the shows. Hope to start participating more in our online community from now on, kinda been in a state of low depression for the last 12 months and kept to myself. But hopefully that´s all going to change now. Thanks for providing a stimulating show all this time.

[Podders]

I'm going to listen to this after I've taken the dog for a walk.

[KMO]

Hey KMO, I´ve recently asked Hermann Maurer from Graz University of Technology if he would be interested in doing an interview on the C Realm.

Thanks, man.

I enjoyed your appearance on the Dopecast this week.

I'm sure I've mentioned it, but I lived in South Fremantle for half a year, so I know Perth well and carry fond memories of the place. It's also the home of one of my favorite hard SF writers, Greg Egan.

Stay well.

-KMO

[fortytwo]

I'd love to have some SF writers on the show. When I interviewed Stephen Gaskin, he told me that science fiction had expanded his consciousness more that psychedelics had, and I think the same may be true for me, but the two for me are rather like meditation and entheogens; complementary but neither one able to completely stand in for the other.

I've asked Charles Stross to appear on the show a few times, but as yet, no luck. I've also asked David Marusek, but he did not reply to my email. I'd love to get Gene Wolf or Dan Simmons on the show. I don't think there's much hope of getting someone as high profile as David Brin or Greg Bear, so I haven't even bothered to invite them. I'd also like to get Nancy Kress on the program, but again, I haven't asked her.

Given that Vernor Vinge is a friend of Matt Pallamary (whom I have interviewed for Psychonautica and who will be appearing on C-Realm after his next book is published), I can imagine getting him on the show, but that's certainly not a chicken I'd care to count before it has hatched.

If you have anyone in particular in mind, do forward their contact information, and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for listening and for providing feedback.

I'll let you know. Science Fiction and Psychedelics certainly were a match made in heaven for Phillip K. Dick!

[KMO]

I'll let you know. Science Fiction and Psychedelics certainly were a match made in heaven for Phillip K. Dick!

Unfortunately for him, the combination of a day job and nights spent wired on amphetamines to stay up and write science fiction proved to be a match made in hell for him and his family. We got some great paranoid sf literature out of him, but I'd gladly trade three quarters of the PKD cannon to have him still with us and chronicling our entry into the 21st Century.

[Little Elf]

I haven't read SF since I read The Tripod Trilogy by John Christopher must be 5 years ago. I should get back into it. So I strongly support KMO if he gets a SF author on a podcast. And I'm glad people are posting names, cause I wouldn't know where to begin looking for good SF.

[KMO]

...And I'm glad people are posting names, cause I wouldn't know where to begin looking for good SF.

Hey Little Elf,

I like the list of books you're reading now. Look for Matt Pallamary on the C-Realm in early 08.

I'm about to start a new SF thread, but let me just say that if you have not read Greg Bear's "Blood Music (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596871067?ie=UTF8&tag=crealm&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1596871067)," I give it my absolute highest recommendation.

http://www.nicholaswhyte.info/sf/bmu3.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596871067?ie=UTF8&tag=crealm&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1596871067)

The original story, published in a pulp sci fi magazine (which is where I first encountered it when I was in high school) won the Hugo award in 1984. It is so prescient a story that when you read it, you'll come across the occasional bit of speculation in which Bear got things just a little bit wrong and it will come back to you and astound you that Greg Bear wasn't basing his conjectures on his personal observations of early 21st Century life, but on his own forward-looking mental model of what life would be like today nearly a quarter of a century ago. The book describes a bio-technological singularity nearly a decade before Vernor Vinge coined the term "technological singularity."

Writing about the original story which was later expanded into a full-length novel, one reviewer put it like this, "Brian Aldiss once characterised good sf as not so much "What if..." as "My God! What if..." and "Blood Music" is firmly in that category. (www.nicholaswhyte.info/sf/bmu.htm)

[fortytwo]

Btw, I have a novel published within this series also "The Parashield" (2004) which explores a young Australian man´s life as he comes to grips with his parability, a mental shield around which he can protect his body. The book is set in Perth, Western Australia (my home town) and reads like an action film with some great moments of suspense.


That's great that you've had a book published. I'd be interested in hearing more about it.

I'm personally on the cusp of a big life change. I've been involved in the Psychedelic community since about 2005 (the online community) and I'm planning on abandoning my day job to do what I've been putting off my entire life--writing a novel. After all, I have a specialized academic degree in fiction, so what the hey, right?

[Samwise Ganja]

That's great that you've had a book published. I'd be interested in hearing more about it.

I'm personally on the cusp of a big life change. I've been involved in the Psychedelic community since about 2005 (the online community) and I'm planning on abandoning my day job to do what I've been putting off my entire life--writing a novel. After all, I have a specialized academic degree in fiction, so what the hey, right?

Hey fortytwo, glad to tell you about it. It´s actually a cool story how the book came to be written. Maybe it will give you some inspiration for your book?

In late 2002 I went and saw a Clairvoyant. Among the many things she said, one was that a man would come from America and offer me a task and the other was, when you go to do the task, think of water and you´ll know what to do. Hmmpff. Ok then.

In early 2003, I met Hermann Maurer, a computer scientist touring Australia giving talks at universities about his work. He is in Kiwanis (an international community group much like Lions, Rotary and Apex I think).

I met him through my Dad who was also in Kiwanis. Before Hermann had come to my city (Perth) another Kiwanis member in Adelaide suggested for Hermann to meet up with my Dad and he would be something of a host.

Hermann ended up having dinner at my house (I was still living with my parents then) and we ended up talking science fiction and realised we had similar interests. I also was studying Philosophy at university as an undergrad then.

He mentioned he was writing a science fiction series, the Xperts and "offered" me a chance to write a book for the series. Naturally I jumped at the chance, being something of a creative writer through my youth.

We met a few days later and he explained the outline of the story of the series: basically a bunch of people with psychic talents fusing them with computer technology to do deeds of good around the world, without taking credit for it.

My "task" he said was to come up with a character with a unique psychic talent, write a 5000 word sample chapter and 12 paragraph chapter summaries.

I also told Hermann about the Clairvoyant and what she said. Being a man of science, Hermann kind of shrugged it off. Plus he wasn´t from America, but Austria. However, I think he said something about coming to Australia via Los Angeles. So? Hmmm.

Now I´d read some SF naturally, and I was especially fond of psychic phenomena. My favourite books at the time being Julian May´s The Galactic Milieu Trilogy which are all about humanity´s growth as a psychic race and graduation into the galactic community of other alien races, who had been observing them for 60,000 years, waiting for this moment.

I knew how many books had already covered the known psychic talents, so I wanted to come up with something "unique." I´d given myself 8 weeks to submit the sample chapter to Hermann, who had by this time returned to his home land in Austria.

So there I was one day a few weeks after meeting Hermann, and thinking about a character and story. Then I remembered the Clairvoyant´s words. "Think of water."

I pondered with my eyes closed for a moment when suddenly I got an image of a guy standing in the rain, but he was not getting wet. A transparent psychic energy shield (or bubble) surrounded him. The whole story expanded from that one image, and you can find out the rest if you read the book or ebook from Amazon. The book is called The Parashield.

The book took about 6 months to write. 6000 words every two weeks, with the incentive that the book would be definitely be published. There were moments of staring out the window, while the screen of the computer remained empty of words. Then a rush of ideas would come and the keyboard become hot with tapping.

As for your choice to leave your job and write a book, I encourage your efforts. It is quite something to write and have a book published. If you´d like to hear more, I´d love to elaborate. I´d also like to hear how your book is going.

Take care. :)

[Little Elf]

Blood Music just arrived! Just read the back cover, it sounds incredible KMO, thanks :)

[KMO]

Blood Music just arrived! Just read the back cover, it sounds incredible KMO, thanks :)

Thanks for letting me know, Little Elf. I'll be interested to read about your experience of the novel.

Stay well.

[fortytwo]

Hey fortytwo,
...
As for your choice to leave your job and write a book, I encourage your efforts. It is quite something to write and have a book published. If you´d like to hear more, I´d love to elaborate. I´d also like to hear how your book is going.

Take care. :)

Thanks for that elaboration. It must feel good to sit down and commit to a goal like that over time. Myself, I had a strange, "other" moment related to me by the mushroom about six weeks ago. The mushroom said "write, stop messing around and just do it." I said "I can't, I have to earn money, I have too many burdens." Then I looked down at my hands and had a vision of them suddenly missing--both of my hands just vanished (nothing shocking or grotesque, more comic) and the mushroom said, "now here is a good excuse for not writing." I laughed and laughed. Good one, huh?

I will be in touch, maybe a PM or something, please feel free to do the same!

[Samwise Ganja]

Thanks, man.

I enjoyed your appearance on the Dopecast this week.

I'm sure I've mentioned it, but I lived in South Fremantle for half a year, so I know Perth well and carry fond memories of the place. It's also the home of one of my favorite hard SF writers, Greg Egan.

Stay well.

-KMO

Hey KMO,

Yeah I have heard you mention you lived there. I lived about 15 minutes from Fremantle for most of my life.

Haven´t read any Greg Egan, maybe you can recommend some titles?

All is really well with me. Take man.

[Samwise Ganja]

Thanks for that elaboration. It must feel good to sit down and commit to a goal like that over time. Myself, I had a strange, "other" moment related to me by the mushroom about six weeks ago. The mushroom said "write, stop messing around and just do it." I said "I can't, I have to earn money, I have too many burdens." Then I looked down at my hands and had a vision of them suddenly missing--both of my hands just vanished (nothing shocking or grotesque, more comic) and the mushroom said, "now here is a good excuse for not writing." I laughed and laughed. Good one, huh?

I will be in touch, maybe a PM or something, please feel free to do the same!

It certainly felt good to complete a book. I know many people start but never finish because of discipline issues. However, if I didn´t have the incentive of knowing that it would definitely be published, perhaps I too would still be in the unfinished bookclub? (because I am one of the laziest people I know).

Love the experience with the mushrooms, I am yet to take them. I wonder what they would say to me?

Whereas you didn´t want to stop work because of money, I am without any money or work at the moment. However, I am blessed because I am living with my girlfriend and her parents who don´t ask me to pay any rent or bills, so I fucking grateful for that.

Gives me time to live online or in meditation, but would eventually like some money. It´s a bit hard at the moment for English Teachers in Germany, especially around Christmas time. Things will get better however.

Take care.

[KMO]

Haven´t read any Greg Egan, maybe you can recommend some titles?

I like his short stories better than I like his novels. My all time favorite is a collection called Axiomatic.

[fortytwo]

Love the experience with the mushrooms, I am yet to take them. I wonder what they would say to me?



The important part is to listen. They are talking to you the whole time. It's am matter of parsing their message from your own thoughts.


Whereas you didn´t want to stop work because of money, I am without any money or work at the moment. However, I am blessed because I am living with my girlfriend and her parents who don´t ask me to pay any rent or bills, so I fucking grateful for that.

Grant yourself the privilege of Blind Faith. The most important thing is to continue writing. The question of publishing is not if, but how.

Gives me time to live online or in meditation, but would eventually like some money. It´s a bit hard at the moment for English Teachers in Germany, especially around Christmas time. Things will get better however.

Take care.

Having your head in the right place is 90% of the game. Best of luck, man.

[Samwise Ganja]

thanks for the tips mate. i appreciate it. especially the bit about having my head in the right place to get through certain phases of life.