Grow 2, Blueberry

[cyberia2012]

Enjoyed the last grow very much and deciced to go in for another grow. The goal of this grow is to build on what I learned from before and get evern better plants!

Bought 5 Blueberry seeds from White Label Seeds Co. 4 of them germinated and one was a blank.

Using Jiffy Pellets to sprout them in, and they are working out much better than my first time.

I want to update my report every week with pictures and infomation from the grow.

For now I have a temprature of 85° F and 75-80% RH. I am now at day 3 since the germed seeds are put into the pellets. They are under a 110watt cool white flurescent.

[herodian]

that blueberry is a lovely smoke. good luck to you... :D

[sttony]

I grew Blueberry once and found them not to be very mold resistant. (The only time I experienced mold on a crop.)
So, watch out for mold.

Keeping the RH low during the flower cycle will help.

[TexasToker]

Looks like you are on your way to a good grow dude. Did you buy feminized seeds? I was thinking maybe they were since you said you only bought 5. Either way ill be keeping an eye on this one. Cant wait to see your setup. good luck dude.

TT

[cyberia2012]

that blueberry is a lovely smoke. good luck to you... :D

Thank you Herodian! Good luck to you to! I was watching your grow as well, so we are almost at the same stage. Good luck to both of us :)

[cyberia2012]

I grew Blueberry once and found them not to be very mold resistant. (The only time I experienced mold on a crop.)
So, watch out for mold.

Keeping the RH low during the flower cycle will help.

Cheers sttony I will watch for that. Was your crop ok though in the end, I hope you got some smoke from it?

[cyberia2012]

Looks like you are on your way to a good grow dude. Did you buy feminized seeds? I was thinking maybe they were since you said you only bought 5. Either way ill be keeping an eye on this one. Cant wait to see your setup. good luck dude.

TT

Thank you TT! Yes I bought the feminized ones. As I learn how to control the environment better I thought that it would be a greater help to buy feminized. I would like seeds in a grow or two, but I want another small grow tent for that for that (and for clones or a mother).

[Zandor]

Bravo!!

You are turning into a very confident gardener :D and I like your plan!

So what improvements that you have learned are you implementing going forward with this grow?

Anything I can do, let me know.

You think you have room for say 4-6 ounces per plant this time?

Peace

Z

[cyberia2012]

Bravo!!

You are turning into a very confident gardener and I like your plan!

So what improvements that you have learned are you implementing going forward with this grow?

Anything I can do, let me know.

You think you have room for say 4-6 ounces per plant this time?

Peace

Z

Thanks Z :D Confidence only in the simple parts ;)

This grow I want to avoid big stretches that is the first thing. Started out with this in mind and made sure my lights were as close as possible without burning the plants. Well might be easier to list things I wantt o get right this time.

1. Do not over water!
2. See above LOL!
3. Roots like it easy going and they are as important maybe more than the leaves. Bought some GH Bio Roots formula for them to use when transplanted and carefuly considering the medium they are in and give them much better drainage!
4. Still on roots, I got taller pots for the plants rather than wide and shallow. Let the roots dig a bit deep to help them get a grip on the earth they are in.
5. PH PH PH! Bought a new pin-point PH pen with calibration fluid to get control of PH level better. Its very good :) Monitoring water temprature before watering to, and have a waterproof thermo to get that right. Buying air pump to oxygenate the water to.
6. Will not panic about the plants. I will have time to correct problems if I need to, and will apply moderation unless I want to boost them in some way.
7. Worm tea! I buying some castings this weekend for that and have worked out the amounds from your show.
8. Light. The CFLs are good in Veg but I want HPS for flowering. This is a big one and I want it bad. The side lighting I used was good but I want more lumens for my watts up top.

I think this is all, for now! LOL! For yield I will be happy with enough to get me to the next harvest. 4-6 Ounces? LOL! We will see, I want at least as much as before but now I have twice as many plants in there with the room to :)

Thank you Z! To you and the whole forum. This realy is a dream to be able to grow my own and it's cuz of you lot!

[cyberia2012]

I forgot the most important point! Follow the cycle of life stages the plants go through and try to observe them as they reach the different stages. This is most important as it will help me move eventualyl to hydro :)

[sttony]

8. Light. The CFLs are good in Veg but I want HPS for flowering. This is a big one and I want it bad. The side lighting I used was good but I want more lumens for my watts up top.
Here's a low cost HPS system you can put a bid on (http://thegrowreport.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4775). Great for the DIY. I've bid on it because it's for a good cause, and it's such a good deal. (I really don't need another system, have 5 now.) Bid it up - I promise not to up it :)

[cyberia2012]

Here's a low cost HPS system you can put a bid on (http://thegrowreport.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4775). Great for the DIY. I've bid on it because it's for a good cause, and it's such a good deal. (I really don't need another system, have 5 now.) Bid it up - I promise not to up it :)

Thanks sttony! I am thinking that I want to go for a 400w in a cool tube though I will defnitely think of this one (and be fast on it as well). Now to look at all of the other auctions :)

[cyberia2012]

My seedlings are now 7 days old. Three are the same height with the forth being a little shorter than the rest. I was worrying for one of the plants as the leaves were very blotchy with pale green to white spots on. Now seems to be stabilizing I think.

Some facts for my diary are my water for peat pellets needs to be 6.8 pH giving a run off of 6.5. Tested the Bio Bizz All Mix soil and water needs to be at 6.7 pH to get to 6.5. I am keeping soil out in the grow tent in pots before I will transplant the seedlings so temprature will be similar and will make sure the water for watering when transplanted is at slightly lower temp than air temp.

I do not know exactly when to transplant out of the peat pellets and have some roots showing now on all pellets. I only have two sets of true leaves showing though so I do not want to transplant yet inot to soil as they seedlings might find it to hot. So not certain of the best method or approch :confused:

[cyberia2012]

Meant to post these shots :confused:

[sttony]

They're coming along nicely and look like they are ready for a new home (in the soil). You should get them planted now into small pots (4"-6") before the critical weeks, 3 and 4.

If you havent checked out the post on how to produce mostly females (http://thegrowreport.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=335)... now would be a good time to review it.

When you transplant into soil you don't want to disturbe the roots to much. When Zandor did it on his show he was transplanting into hydro and you are transplanting into soil and they are different. Z needed to remove all the soil for his hydro grow, you only need remove the outer nylon layer. Use a razor blade and carefully score the nylon and remove the rootball before transplant, leaving the rootball as undisturbed as possible.

Looking good :)

Edit - I've never used Bio Bizz, whats in it?

[cyberia2012]

Thanks sttony! The soil mixture is

5% PRE MIX

10% WORM MANURE

20% SPHAGNUM PEAT MOSS

35% PEAT

30% PERLITE

The Pre Mixture that makes up the 5% contains

Total Nitrogen (N) 3% - 1.5 % Water Soluble Nitrogen, 1.5% Water Insoluble Nitrogen.

Available Phosphate (P2O5) 3%

Soluble Potash (K20) 5%

Magnesium (Mg) 3%

Derived From: Soybean Meal, Molasses, Green Kelp, Seaweed and other species of kelp.

Have the pots ready to go now amd will transplant tonight :) I will take a pic of there new houses :)

[sttony]

Have you put any lime into the mix? The lime helps to release the nutrients to the plant and is used to lower pH.

The mix looks like its a little low in the N.
A nutrient formulation that has roughly equal parts N, P and K is great but if the P levels go up or the N levels go down you are starting to look at a flowering type food for cannabis. If you do this then your odds of producing mostly females is greatly decreased. Make sure that you get those N, P and K levels to almost run from higher to lower amounts from N to P and K.

Should be OK for now, then by week 2-3 consider giving them some of "Z's" worm tea :D
I asked him about it today. (here (http://thegrowreport.com/Forums/showthread.php?postid=37370#post37370))
Just use Ph'd water for now, no extra nutes.


Edit: Added soil pH and nutrient availabilty chart.

[cyberia2012]

Cannot thank you enough sttony! Defo going to use worm tea when they are bigger. I have not used the lime in the soil yet. I use PH Up and Down as I need to and my soil reduces the PH by .2 with slight variances with temprature pf the water but I am checking the run off every water.

The water supply is quite soft here with not much calcium but is there any tricks I can use to check the make up of the water? I always use boiled water or water that has sit for a day or so and the PH goes way up without the chlorine.

It's the plants morning now so going to repot them :)

[sttony]

but is there any tricks I can use to check the make up of the water? I always use boiled water or water that has sit for a day...

I don't know of any tricks you can use to check the make up of the water other than to check with the water co.

Boiled waters not good. When you heat water you lose oxygen.
Chlorine is a gas and will dissipate within 24 to 36 hours (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080405013433AABY7CM) after you draw it from the tap.

Its better to use an aerator (Airpump and airstone) during the time when the water is sitting.

[cyberia2012]

Cheers sttony :) Transplant complete! I am waiting for an air pump now to use for the water supply so I always have dechlorinated water with good O2 levels in there. Good tip on the water board. I am going to try to see if I can get the analysis from them.

I just had a timeout to look at there website and they have some files but not what I need. Calling there customer services and am going to tell them that my son needs it for a school project :eek:

[cyberia2012]

Today is week two and the plants are all showing there 4th set of leaves now.

The plant that had the strange pigmentation is getting straight now and the color is filling in. One of the leaves on another plant has a blotch of pure yellow! This all so is now chaning color to a more greeny one.

All plants now have the start of branches from the first and second nodes.

I fed them the first time yesterday so maybe the pigmentation issues will go completely now. Feeding Worm Tea this weekend as well to boost N.

Still watering and feeding with pH of 6.5 measured on water run off and calibrating pH meter every 3 weeks. Using GH 3 part feed with GH Bio Roots added to. With better drainage I am watering now every 3 days. Feeding every other water.

Temps are 28.5 C day and 19 C night. Still 18/6. Humidity ranging now between 60-70% RH.

I can not find a UK supplier of Bush Master. Any ideas where to find some everyone? This is needed for my plan :eek: May be any alternative brands?

[cyberia2012]

All so these plants smell very "cannabissy" already :D

[cyberia2012]

A long searching has failed to find a UK seller of Bushmaster and I think I will buy this from USA. 8oz bottle will cost me £18 and £7 for posting :eek:

[Oldbay]

Ouch on the purchase/shipping price. Z mentioned alternatives to bushmaster from other companies (GH being one of them I think) have you looked into competitive products that may be available closer to home?

[cyberia2012]

Ouch on the purchase/shipping price. Z mentioned alternatives to bushmaster from other companies (GH being one of them I think) have you looked into competitive products that may be available closer to home?

Hello Oldbay! Yes I have tried to find alternatives and sttony said in a thread I made in the Nutrient section that Dutch Masters Phosphoload would work to but same problem that there are no UK sellers I can find yet.

Thank you for the tip on GH. I have looked at all of there products but nothing I can see there looks even similar.

The results will be worth the cost with good fortune so I will stump the money for this from the USA. Will keep looking for now though :)

[LSDarkstar]

Right On man .... I'm pulling up a chair for this one. Great pics ... nice tight nodes.

Great Job Cyberia2012

[Oldbay]

I kind of look at a lot of things in that light as well. Aside from being less expensive over all for the amount of top shelf buds, I see some of the extras like I would a hobby expense. I kinda miss having a garden now :(

Hello Oldbay! Yes I have tried to find alternatives and sttony said in a thread I made in the Nutrient section that Dutch Masters Phosphoload would work to but same problem that there are no UK sellers I can find yet.

Thank you for the tip on GH. I have looked at all of there products but nothing I can see there looks even similar.

The results will be worth the cost with good fortune so I will stump the money for this from the USA. Will keep looking for now though :)

[cyberia2012]

Right On man .... I'm pulling up a chair for this one. Great pics ... nice tight nodes.

Great Job Cyberia2012

Hello and thank you LSDarkstar! Plants due a watering today and new pics updated on tuesdays :)

[cyberia2012]

I kind of look at a lot of things in that light as well. Aside from being less expensive over all for the amount of top shelf buds, I see some of the extras like I would a hobby expense. I kinda miss having a garden now :(

This hobby is defnitely growing Oldbay! :D I have a small seprate grow area now for some orange thyme and I have some lavendar ready to go in with them. I think a green house is going to be required soon :cool:

[cyberia2012]

Good news and bad news this week :) :(

3 plants are doing well with good growth rates and a very pongy smell from them.

1 plant is not. The one with the blotchy leaves has gotten worse to a bad level. I thought that at first this was nute burn so the plant has missed its feedings and has only been haveing pH balanced water but the burn is spreading. Any help from you would be well received :)

I have some Thrive Alive coming and was going to give the sick plant some to help it but was concerend that this might be worse for it. :confused:

Here are this weeks pics!

[cyberia2012]

Some others.

[cyberia2012]

Leaf problem is worse now on the one plant. Watering tonight with some thrive alive to see if this will help but the rapidity makes me feel that I will lose this one :(

[sttony]

What are you feeding them?
Please list all nutes :)

[Oldbay]

I'd be a little curious about drainage as well. I am sure there are some holes on the bottom, but maybe a few on the sides. If you haven't gotten to the point of salt buildup or over feeding, then maybe you rotted your roots some? I agree though we need to know what they have been eating. I have never grown BB, but I have heard it is a very light eater.

[cyberia2012]

Hello guys, feeding with GH 3 part and sticking to veg schedule but have cut the amounts in half making it .25 mls of grow, bloom and micro every other feeding. I am all so using a diluted Bio Roots additive at rate of one drop per liter or 4 drops per gallon. I have drilled in extra 1/4" holes on the bottom making a total of around 20 holes all together none on sides though. Hate to think that I have done this to the plant. I wanted to have good drainage so now the soil is bone dry in 2-2.5 days and I like to water on the 3 day to get more air to the roots.

The water from the run off is not smelly at all so I was hoping there is no anaerobic decomposition down there. All so I lifted the sick plant out of the pot and the roots are white and look healthy at least on the outside (do not know on the inside of the soil though).

Last nght I put a drop of Thrive ALive in with the pH'd water to see what can be done I figured it can not hurt this one.

[cyberia2012]

Forget to mention that the sick plant has now been without food for a week.

[sttony]

What... No CAL-MAG (http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=1&pro_id_pk=10)?
From: ChristianKungFu - Basic Elements and Nutrient Balance (long) (http://www.growfaq.net/index.php?action=artikel&cat=11&id=440&artlang=en&highlight=ChristianKungFu)

Calcium (Ca) functions as a ‘glue’ in plant cell walls. It partially regulates cell wall permeability and works as an enzymatic cofactor.

Without Calcium, plant cells couldn't reproduce because it is vital in meiosis and mitosis, cell-wall permeability and enzyme synthesis. In addition to this role in cell division, on a larger scale, Ca is crucial to the growth of the apical meristem (growing tip).

Magnesium (Mg) is a central element of the chlorophyll molecule, so is obviously crucial to photosynthesis. It is also an enzymatic cofactor and has a role in uptake of many nutrients.

[cyberia2012]

What... No CAL-MAG?

Hello sttony! No I am not using this at this point. I did a search but this as the same as Bushmaster seems hard to get here. The leading Hydro store on the web here does not sell it, and I looked for Calcium or Magnesium additives seprately there. Only import on Ebay to. :(

Plant a lot worse now. I think it's had it :(

[sttony]

I have a feeling that a lack of Ca is part of your problems. This can be remedied with the addition of some hydrated lime.

HYDRATED LIME ....has 52% total Ca...derived from Calcium Oxide and Calcium Hydroxide and no other elements.
1 gram/L=520PPM/Liter=137PPM/gallon. http://www.growfaq.net/index.php?action=artikel&cat=11&id=440&artlang=en&highlight=ChristianKungFu

Plant a lot worse now. I think it's had it :(

When you said you gave the plant "a drop of Thrive ALive", did you use a dropper to measure, or did you just tip the bottle?
I know that stuff doesn't come with a dropper and more than a drop is a toxic overdose.

[cyberia2012]

Thank you sstony :) I will see what the Hydro store has tomorrow as I want some new pots anyway so i will ask him in there.

I use dropper pippetes that I use for nute measures so I use a fresh dropper for each different nutrient. Every one is cleaned and dried before using again (i have millions of them to). The Thrive was added as a small drop only to the gallon.

Going to all so drill in some side holes I was thinking of 4-6 holes round the bottom but on the side.

[cyberia2012]

Other plants now showing signs of this. This is becoming a real nightmare :mad:

[cyberia2012]

Bushmaster is here :) But plants look like frizzled zombie monsters :eek:

Off to Hydro shop now to see what potions the man has there. Pray for them plants!

*Edit*
Actually I want to add this for the diary that last night I was so depressed about this situation. Today I think I am up for the challenge to sort it out. There are many things that this can be, but if I get everything as right as I can then I can not say that I did not try my hardest. The strange thing is that I just don't know! So then if I change something for the worse I will not know it until things get worse. Well, there is not much I can do about that part of things. I have to try. If the worst comes then I buy more seeds and try again, this is costly but not ridiculous. Today I will buy some Cal-Mag or equivalent, and ask Hydro Man if there is anything he can offer to. Soil is almost dry enough for watering, and will be ok by tonight.

Time to go face my green destiny :)

[cyberia2012]

Bought some Cal-Max today (calcium, magnesium and iron) and have used at suggsted dose for soil of 5ml per gallon. Let us see how it goes. I am considering not feeding any plants until I get some response from the Cal-Max.

All so, I took off the leaves from the lower parts of the plants, and thought I would scan in the leaves for you to see what it is I am up against on an up close scale.


I have left on there some affected leaves and will watch the discoloration in the other ones to see how the plants respond to the Cal-Max. Don't really have anything to lose now I suppose, so fingers are crossed!

[Oldbay]

Have you hit them with the bushmaster yet? I may hold off until they are back on track. I have heard it can be kind of rough on them.

[cyberia2012]

Have you hit them with the bushmaster yet? I may hold off until they are back on track. I have heard it can be kind of rough on them.

No, I thought the same as you Oldbay. This week the growth rates have been very poor anyway, and I still have another 2-3 weeks where I can leave them in veg due to height if i need to. I think let them recover if they can, and give them some time to build up strenght.

I was thinking to use Big Bud this grow but with the Bushmaster I do not know if they would take that much pushing straight after the Bushmaster. That's something else for me to ponder :)

[sttony]

I am considering not feeding any plants until I get some response from the Cal-Max.
You do know that Cal-Max is just an additive and .25 mls of grow, bloom and micro every other feeding may be to much:confused:

Here's a post from latewood on feeding:
...I find my plants love to have nutes one feeding, water the next. (in soil) That way you run less risk of overferting.

I use 1-1-1 or 8ml-8ml-8ml per gallon for veg...

Your problems are similar to others, here on the forum, that have used GH 3 part in their soil grows.
I've never used that brand before, can I ask you why you've chosen to use it?


Edit: Looking at your leaf pics, it does look like nutrient burn. Check this and compare: http://www.growfaq.net/growfaq/97.htm

[cyberia2012]

You do know that Cal-Max is just an additive and .25 mls of grow, bloom and micro every other feeding may be to much:confused:


Hello sttony :) Yes, I am aware that the Cal-Max is just an additive. I tried to buy Cal-Mag but can't find any here. So, I went to the store with the question of equivelents for calcium and magnesium additives and this was what they had.

I am using .25mls of the 3-part as this is a half dose. Right now though the plants are getting Cal-Max in pH'd water to try and control this. The blotchiness and burn all so started before any feedings at all, which is why I was so confued. In fact, the blotchiness started on the first plant when they were still in the peat pellets and gradually got worse, then better on transplant, then worse two weeks later.


Your problems are similar to others, here on the forum, that have used GH 3 part in their soil grows.
I've never used that brand before, can I ask you why you've chosen to use it?


Yes of course you can ask :) Having listened to Z on the subject of GH being a good base NPK, from listening to the Hydro Store man about his recomendations, and on the basis of my success with the last grow when using it.


Edit: Looking at your leaf pics, it does look like nutrient burn. Check this and compare: http://www.growfaq.net/growfaq/97.htm

Yes I agree, and that was why I stopped feeding the plants too. What confuses me is that the discoloring effects occurred before any feeding, and even in the peat stage.

I thought this could be due to a few factors. Water was off for Ca at the start. Put the seedlings into soil too fast. I was all so using the GH root stimulator, so if this worked then the increased rootage could have taken in too much fert too fast for the plants. Even though I don't think I have over fed them with nutes, the soil still has them. But, I don't know. If my thoughts are correct, then the steps I have taken should resolve these. If not, well: :eek:

Next few days will tell I guess.

[cyberia2012]

Sorry for the break in pics but only was bad news here.

Leaf burning seems to have stopped/slowed. Plants have now gone for just over a week with no food only water/cal-max and ph'd.

There is obviously a N deficiency now, and this also seems to have started slightly before feeding stopped as there were signs of yellowing leaves before I stopped feeding. Leaf tips are purpling followed by a strong yellowing.

Fed plants today and will worm tea them on next watering. If N is now the only problem, then I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Fingers are definitely crossed.

The worry is here that in pic 3, the strange discoloration is still present and there is blotchiness all over some leaves.

[LendogPDX]

I have faith.... seen a lot worse

[cyberia2012]

Just did a search and some more reading on chlorosis. I think I know what is happening :confused:

Picture one below shows a plant with phosphorous deficiency. This is almost identical to the the scanned pictures I uploaded.

Picture two below shows Magnesium deficiency, and is almost identical to the blotchiness that my plants have in some leaves. Sttony recomended Cal-Mag which i bought, but with these two symptoms, I think that the pH is off.

I think the pH is actually lower than my pH-pen is telling me it is. If the pH is lower than the 6.5 that I think it is on run-off, then this would explain the two problems. Todays pH on run-off was 6.7 so if I am right then this will be better for the plants. Well, just some thoughts.

[cyberia2012]

I have faith.... seen a lot worse

Thanks Lendog! I do man, I have faith and fingers crossed ;)

[Oldbay]

I'm with you on thinking it is PH, and I also think you'll pull through just fine.

[gr8fulDAD]

I am no Zandor, but I have to agree with Oldbay. It looks alot like the start of my last grow, and ph was my issue. The cal-mag should also help you but only if you get your ph on target. All the best nutes in the world will not help your babies if they are locked out by a ph imbalance.I also found that my plants do better at a ph of 6.4-6.8 in dirt. If I were you the next time you are to water I would flush out each container with about 5 times the amount of ph water(1 gallon container,5 gallons water), then fertilize with a rather weak feeding(half of your normal). If you are going to use superthrive(i prefer not to), go light. 1 drop per gallon is plenty. Dont forget to ph your water. This really brought my plants back to life last time around. In about 5 days they didnt even look like the same plants. It is not to late! Flush out those pots. And most important, always know the ph of you water and soil. I cant wait to see some more pics. With all the love you are giving them,they will come around.

[cyberia2012]

Cheers Oldbay and Dad. Since I raised the pH and fed/watered on sunday, the discoloration has stopped almost in its tracks.

I think maybe I am doing something wrong on the testing of run off water, but I was getting 6.5 on each measure. I had the pots over a larger bowl and was slowly watering and then collecting water in the bowl and then checking the pH from that.

All so, I was calibraiting the pen with 7.0 pH fluid at 25 celsius and it was fine :confused:

I was making up some worm tea but should I flush before the tea?

[cyberia2012]

Did 3 things tonight. I noticed that humidity was fallings as we are getting cooler and cooler here and RH has fallen to around 37%. Laid some vermiculite around and misted and now RH is up to 65-70%.

All so, I hung the side lighting to.

Finally, I misted the leaves some to help clean the leaves of any dust particles etc.

Have water in a bucket with an air pump to dechlorinate, and will flush tomorrow and worm tea after the flush.

These pictures will show more of the state of affairs.

[cyberia2012]

Some more. One of the plants is only very slightly affected, while another is dramatically affected with the purpling and flimsy leaves.