Episode 70: Who's "We?"

[KMO]

Episode 70: Who's "We?" (http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2007-12-26T20_54_32-08_00)

http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/2007-12-26T20_54_32-08_00.jpg (http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2007-12-26T20_54_32-08_00)

KMO concludes his talk with futurist George Dvorsky about the wisdom of human enhancement, and then wraps up the year with a look at the real world Amish and the lure of Collapse Fetishism.

Show notes: http://kmo.livejournal.com/328667.html

[psygnisfive]

We is the first person plural pronoun and refers to the speakers. ;)

[VictoriaPandora]

Hey KMO, congratulations on keeping your new years resolution and getting a podcast out every single Wednesday. I still think I may have missed a couple in there somewhere, but I have certainly heard enough of them to be aware of the many obstacles, large and small, you have had to overcome to manage all that.
Tending to your sons toilet needs in the middle of the podcast reminded me of when I used to sell my c/d's at street fairs in Venice. After my daughter was born I'd bring her along with me. So, all manner of breastfeeding, burping and diaper changing went on... never a dull moment.

So, well done KMO, and a very happy new year to you!

[max_freakout]

there is a very strong tendency for people to refer to this 'we' entity, like for example 'we need to do something about climate change'

But it doesnt exist, there is no 'we'

[VictoriaPandora]

Yeah I'd like to hear more from Orlaf... he's got some wisdom gain from staight on experience that we'd be better off for knowing. Is he comming back on anytime soon? I love how he cuts to the chase, a real no nonsense kind of guy.

[KMO]

Yeah I'd like to hear more from Orlov... Is he comming back on anytime soon?

He's got a book coming out in March (or is it May?), and I'll be recording a short segment with him sometime soon, but it won't be a long interview like you can find in episodes 20 and 21.

[VictoriaPandora]

OK, I really should revisit those episodes, I remember working in the garden and also being interrupted a lot during one of those. He deserves a closer listen, he talks in 3D...

[Febo]

there is a very strong tendency for people to refer to this 'we' entity, like for example 'we need to do something about climate change'

But it doesnt exist, there is no 'we'

Yes but no but yes but
If you mean there is no 'we' ,only 'us' then I'm with you brother.
Question is - is there a 'them'?

[max_freakout]

Yes but no but yes but
If you mean there is no 'we' ,only 'us' then I'm with you brother.
Question is - is there a 'them'?


I would go further than that and say there ıs no we, no us, no them, there ıs only I

lots and lots of Is doesnt make a we ımo

[Febo]

I would go further than that and say there ıs no we, no us, no them, there ıs only I

lots and lots of Is doesnt make a we ımo


But that sounds like "there is no such thing as society" - the extreme, atomised individualism we are suffering so badly from at the moment.

[max_freakout]

But that sounds like "there is no such thing as society" - the extreme, atomised individualism we are suffering so badly from at the moment.

I dont thınk socıety exısts, ıt ısnt a thıng, just an abstract concept that people vaguely refer to wıthout knowıng what ıt really ıs

Why do you thınk we suffer from thıs?

[Febo]

I dont thınk socıety exısts, ıt ısnt a thıng, just an abstract concept that people vaguely refer to wıthout knowıng what ıt really ıs

Why do you thınk we suffer from thıs?

By society I mean community.
Did you catch that Adam Curtis Docu miniseries called Century of the Self a few years ago? He showed how consumer capitalism, through the public relations industry, atomised societies into as many consuming units as possible. The result - monitored by mags like Adbusters, is a society of self-centred, atomised individuals who don't know and cannot trust eachother. This disease is the root of the social breakdown we are witnessing in places like the UK and US.
btw I regard myself as one of these atomised individuals.

[max_freakout]

By society I mean community.
Did you catch that Adam Curtis Docu miniseries called Century of the Self a few years ago? He showed how consumer capitalism, through the public relations industry, atomised societies into as many consuming units as possible. The result - monitored by mags like Adbusters, is a society of self-centred, atomised individuals who don't know and cannot trust eachother. This disease is the root of the social breakdown we are witnessing in places like the UK and US.
btw I regard myself as one of these atomised individuals.



Well community certainly exısts, but ı thınk ıt ıs ımportant to make a dıstınctıon between socıety and communıty, ı dont thınk they are the same thıng

ı dıdnt see that documentary but ıt sounds ınterestıng, the questıon ıt seems to hıghlıght ıs, whose purposes does thıs abstract entıty called 'socıety' serve?

[Febo]

Well community certainly exısts, but ı thınk ıt ıs ımportant to make a dıstınctıon between socıety and communıty, ı dont thınk they are the same thıng

ı dıdnt see that documentary but ıt sounds ınterestıng, the questıon ıt seems to hıghlıght ıs, whose purposes does thıs abstract entıty called 'socıety' serve?
i don't see it as abstract at all. A society is a functioning entity, including the division of labour, infrastructure, government, economy, culture. All crewed by us.
You really are freaking me out - remember who declared there was no such thing as society? Margaret Thatcher.

[Little Elf]

Made me think of this guy on RadiOrbit.

http://www.mikehagan.com/2012/mp3/091204_ED_GRIFFIN.mp3

we may have been 'taught' to be the community. But Max is right there are only individuals. Only people, there is no 'group'. No committee ever came up with an idea, only people did. Thats as much singularity as I could wish for:)

[Little Elf]

This is collectivism at its worse...:(:mad::o:confused:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibpdwFjPMWE

[Podders]

I dont thınk socıety exısts

Don't want to bring you down man, but isn't that what Thatcher said?

O shit I thought I was in the chat room

[max_freakout]

*cringes at sharing an opinion wıth Thatcher*


but i believe its true, society isnt a 'thing', its an abstract composıte of many many thıngs

[tuatara]

but i believe its true, society isnt a 'thing', its an abstract composıte of many many thıngs

Do you believe in the existence of forests? What about cities?

I'm not asking these questions to be silly. I'm just trying to get a handle on what sorts of things you do recognise to exist.

[max_freakout]

Do you believe in the existence of forests? What about cities?

I'm not asking these questions to be silly. I'm just trying to get a handle on what sorts of things you do recognise to exist.

you got me thinking there, i should have saıd perhaps, societies arent even a composite of many things. I do believe in forests and cities, but i dont believe in societies, nothing comes into existence when you put loads of people into a particular place, but something does come into existence when you plant loads of trees in a particular place. I dont know why i believe this but ıt feels very true to me, perhaps because the word 'society' is used to justify immoral acts, but im not sure