Urban Shaman

[TechnoShaman]

I am a traveling urban shaman, currently in Ottawa
I highly suspect there may be like-minded people here on the forums
I'm looking for some inspiration, or at least some interesting stories
Since people are defined by their actions, not their titles, post a story about how you act as the shaman.

example: I intentionally go to raves where people are taking 'exstasy' and give them 5-HTP and vitamin C in the hopes that it will minimize brain damage. It has occurred on a number of occasions that people have been so overwhelmed by this that they feel the need to pay my cover for the party*. This is what I love most about being a shaman: Their good night becomes a gift, as does my own.

Is anyone out there, or am I wasting cyberspace?

I have been referring a lot of people to the podcast, keep up the good work :D

*I renounced money, so I usually use social engineering to get into parties.

[Hudsonrulez]

well not really in psycadelics. Im more of a herb man myself. explaining the nuances and diffrent highs in weed. so yea in the example you give me its totally true.

done it so many times before thats its very generic. Btw I've hung out with the urban shaman himself chris bennett. nice dude. guys a big volcano fan!

Also very knowledgeable with herbs and the history behind them. if your looking for a trip and a half go for the iowaska, if your looking for something more of a weed buzz try Kava. treat it like booze as it does a number on your liver. a nice tea or weed botch mix (fuck tobbaco takes away from the taste) try Damiena.

next to the urban shaman is the cc hq vapor lounge. definatly check it out! Also check out the vancouver seed bank http://www.vancouverseedbank.ca/catalog/ if you can grow it they got it.

Tell Brian, Dana or Kara Hudson says high!

[mike ra]

Would not consider myself a 'real' shaman.. i think the term is often misrepresented.. but i do have a shamanic outlook towards many situtations...

i understand ritual magick.. but don't regularly practice it. to be a shaman, you must live up to the title.. sadly the word shaman don't mean sh`t anymore.. there exist far too many charlatans who heard a few mckenna talks, then decided to themselves shaman the very next day.

[max_freakout]

Thanx for referring people to the podcast! there are plenty of similarly-minded people on here so stick around.

I must say though i dont think ecstasy gives people brain damage! Although HTTP is supposed to help e comedowns....

[queerninja]

Interesting...I recently picked up some very pure MDMA from a reliable source that has a faraway freind with a very sophisticated chemistry set. So I'll be looking to prepare for my voyage....In terms of 5-HTP supplementation, metabolising more Serotonin from L-Tryptophan might be a good for post-loading, to help resotre base line neurochemical levels. Or, in pre-loading to increase the effects ;)

I know that there is debate over the neurotoxic effects of MDMA due to oxidation, and that's why anti-oxidants are sometimes recommended to reduce these effects, but a side-effect of Vitamin C ingestion during MDMA exposure can be to lower tolerance to MDMA. I thought it might not be a good idea to use Vitamin C as a chemical defence against oxidation, if the door would then be open to greater affect by MDMA. Or, is the reduced tolerance a factor in an area other than serotonergic terminal markers, and dopamine re-uptake monoamine reactors in which MDMA is allegedly damaging? Interestingly, amphetamine also has been implicated in causing oxidation in these sites. My reasoning is that if Vitamin C does lead to reduced tolerance to MDMA, then the damage from the increased oxidation will be more pronounced than the combative reduction in oxidation by the Vitamin C anti-oxidant. Might be better to use another anti-oxidant.

I know I'll be using magnesium and calcium to help control the jaw tension which I don't alway get, but man it can be a bugger! Also gonna use a nice spread of anti-oxidants for my brain to bathe in way before the exposure to build up levels, and about 6 hours after dosing. But this is mainly to make the hangover much easier if the dose was high. I also recommend a decent multi-vitmain with some iso-tonics to balance mineral levels.

I don't know if long-term MDMA use causes chronic cebreal tissue damage from oxidation. I don't even know if MDMA causes acute cerebral tissue damage from oxidation. Or, if any other system is affected in some way. But, it can't hurt to take some precautions until I've seen definitive evidence either way. Of course, this stuff may not do anything at all...but it makes me feel better, and placebo is good too :) I've also been using MDMA for a fair few years, and was involved in a national experiment into long-term MDMA use and cognitive, motor and emotional responses back in 1998...shame the studies that don't show a relationship that 'The Man' wants don't make many waves. Anyways...see ya :)

[Blazing Glory]

Fantastic post Queer Ninja, thanks man.

[TechnoShaman]

The potential negative effect on the brain is caused in part by oxidized dopamine entering seratonin channels and disrupting function that way. Please feel free to correct me if i am incorrectly informed on this one. In any case, the trip and after effects are improved experientially, regardless of the science. (If even for the placebo effect, they would still have worth)
*EDIT* 5-htp is a mild antioxidant. (though this might not matter)

The title of shaman doesn't have any fixed meaning. It has a lot of history and backstory and implications, but you cannot tell someone "You are not a shaman for X reason."
*EDIT2* There is no such thing as magic. I am not a mystic of any sort. I am a realist scientist.

We are who we pretend to be.
I also pretend to be a monk, and a human being. (And a pirate!)

I wear the Shaman's mask.
Do you?

[queerninja]

Hi Technoshaman, very cool to be discussing this stuff, I love it, and rarely get the chance :)

Yes, it makes sense for me for all nerotransmitter metabolytes to have anti-oxidant properties so they survive long enough to convert the amino-acids into tonic neurotransmitters.

This one needs a longer post, so I'll get back after work. ahhh....gotta go :(

[Hudsonrulez]

wow intresting stuff. its why I dont take designer drugs. to complicated. mdma has only been around for 30-40 years so I'm not really gonna take the chance. I've seen what mdma use can (because there responsible users out there) do to ones emotions and brain fuctioning.

I might take mdma 30 years down the road if I'm dying of cancer or some other terminal illness but its not really my kind of thing.

my whole rule of thumb is. If it hasn't been given to us by Guya (mother earth) then don't use it.

Doesn't mean I dont want to hear more on the subject this is turning out to be a very intresting thread. I await your knowledge queerninja!

[mike ra]

There is no such thing as magic. I am not a mystic of any sort. I am a realist scientist.

maybe no such thing as 'real' stage magic.. but magick and ritual is very real; the psychedelic mind state is widely seen as a form of alchemical magick amongst shamans. all classic -original beliefs into shamanic culture has some base in ritual magick, to downplay that aspect of shamanism is ignorance. Anyways, the magick i speak on IS real science, just have to be exposed to the lesser known sciences being studied.

I wear the Shaman's mask.
Do you?

Yup.. but always keep in mind; it's just a mask.

[max_freakout]

the psychedelic experience itself is pure magic imo, that's all the proof you need of the existence of magic, eat a bunch of mushrooms :cool:

[TechnoShaman]

magick and ritual is very real; the psychedelic mind state is widely seen as a form of alchemical magick amongst shamans.
Yup.. but always keep in mind; it's just a mask.

When I say magic isn't real I am speaking against the idea that magic is some sort of transcendental physical force that seeks to bring fairness and justice to the good boys and girls.
Practiced magic where there are real results is the magic of the mind. Jedi/ninja mind tricks are not magic, but clever mental manipulations. A computer is not a box full of magic, it's technical 'wizardry'.
Having a baby may be a 'magical' experience (because of the drugs it releases) but that's quite different from saying that the baby itself is made of magic, or that virgin birth can be realized through 'magic powers'. (i imagine it could be realized through medical science though)

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Clarke

[Szifers]

[...]the idea that magic is some sort of transcendental physical force [...]

How can something be physical and transcendental at the same time? That sounds like a contradiction.

A computer is not a box full of magic, it's technical 'wizardry'.

All magic is technical. Shamanism is nothing more than technique. The original word "shaman" means clever person. Australian aboriginees refer to shamans as "clever fella". The difference is that shamans do "mental manipulation", that is they are dealing with and manipulating the spirit world, not the material world. Shamanism is a social institution that serves the community by retrieving information from the spirit world, travelling and being active in the spirit world, and using transcendental technology for healing the sick.

[cereus]

I think magic is a real thing but it is not like in the fantasy novels where you may manipulate the physical world with the mind. Well it is, but in a more subtle way. It’s more like the way you can spell bind your audience and be elevated in their mind, like a king of olden times, he wielded a kind of magic that made people believe and follow, this vas done trough rituals and charisma. And likewise the shamans, noadi, ore wise folk wielded a power over people that made them able to cure, frighten and lead their tribe. There are other kinds of magic but it is more private to the individual "shaman" some had power over the elements others over the plants or animals.
In history shape shifting was a large part of many different traditions; and perhaps still is in the Amazon. Any of you guys that se what use this can have. It is the power of the mask and the uniform. The wilder of this kind of magic can more easily assume different roles in society, it is a power over your self and in that sense over other people.

[Szifers]

The shaman doesn't lead anyone. The shaman is politically marginal. There always has been brujeria, magic, using the abilities for personal gain, but that has nothing to do with shamanism. The fact that they all deal with the non-material world doesn't make them any more similar than any two different practices dealing with the material world are similar.

[tripitika]

Interesting...I recently picked up some very pure MDMA from a reliable source that has a faraway freind with a very sophisticated chemistry set. So I'll be looking to prepare for my voyage....In terms of 5-HTP supplementation, metabolising more Serotonin from L-Tryptophan might be a good for post-loading, to help resotre base line neurochemical levels. Or, in pre-loading to increase the effects ;)

I know that there is debate over the neurotoxic effects of MDMA due to oxidation, and that's why anti-oxidants are sometimes recommended to reduce these effects, but a side-effect of Vitamin C ingestion during MDMA exposure can be to lower tolerance to MDMA. I thought it might not be a good idea to use Vitamin C as a chemical defence against oxidation, if the door would then be open to greater affect by MDMA. Or, is the reduced tolerance a factor in an area other than serotonergic terminal markers, and dopamine re-uptake monoamine reactors in which MDMA is allegedly damaging? Interestingly, amphetamine also has been implicated in causing oxidation in these sites. My reasoning is that if Vitamin C does lead to reduced tolerance to MDMA, then the damage from the increased oxidation will be more pronounced than the combative reduction in oxidation by the Vitamin C anti-oxidant. Might be better to use another anti-oxidant.

I know I'll be using magnesium and calcium to help control the jaw tension which I don't alway get, but man it can be a bugger! Also gonna use a nice spread of anti-oxidants for my brain to bathe in way before the exposure to build up levels, and about 6 hours after dosing. But this is mainly to make the hangover much easier if the dose was high. I also recommend a decent multi-vitmain with some iso-tonics to balance mineral levels.

I don't know if long-term MDMA use causes chronic cebreal tissue damage from oxidation. I don't even know if MDMA causes acute cerebral tissue damage from oxidation. Or, if any other system is affected in some way. But, it can't hurt to take some precautions until I've seen definitive evidence either way. Of course, this stuff may not do anything at all...but it makes me feel better, and placebo is good too :) I've also been using MDMA for a fair few years, and was involved in a national experiment into long-term MDMA use and cognitive, motor and emotional responses back in 1998...shame the studies that don't show a relationship that 'The Man' wants don't make many waves. Anyways...see ya :)

Was performing some of my own experiments along these lines yesterday. I also have a supply of pure MDMA from one of those overseas chemists. Now, I am not hugely exprienced with MDMA (10 times, maybe), and have never really had huge problems with comedown/hangover...but this experience was just glowing blissful joy all the way through. I started pre-loading two days in advance, taking 200 mgs 5-htp each day. The morning of (4 hours before dosing), I took 100 mgs of 5-htp, one emergen-c packet (contains vitamin C ascorbates among other vitamins/minerals), 200 mgs vitamin e, and some extra magnesium. Ten hours after taking the mdma, I took another 100 mgs 5-htp, and one more emergen-c packet. I woke up this morning feeling fantastic. Happiness oozing out of each and every pore.

I've heard a lot of contrary opinions on pre and post-loading with 5-htp and various anti-oxidants. This was my first expriment. Though this one seemed to work beautifully, I'll mix up the cocktail next time and see if the results differ. Perhaps skip the pre-loading with 5-htp, and use a different anti-oxidant? I'll update as research continues.

[mike ra]

I think magic is a real thing but it is not like in the fantasy novels where you may manipulate the physical world with the mind.

i seen a few too many reports on levitation and real magick to agree. i never had any amazing first hand experiences, but credible sources have caught incredible things on video. i think there is less of a difference between whats physical and mental then what we have all come to believe... everything in our existence can be interpreted via chemical brain stimulation, which includes physical functioning.

[queerninja]

Happiness oozing out of each and every pore.

I've heard a lot of contrary opinions on pre and post-loading with 5-htp and various anti-oxidants. This was my first expriment. Though this one seemed to work beautifully, I'll mix up the cocktail next time and see if the results differ. Perhaps skip the pre-loading with 5-htp, and use a different anti-oxidant? I'll update as research continues.

Very nice man :) Keep an eye on your emotive states over the few days following come down and get back us if you can. I've heard that Serotonin bottoms out, peaks and then bottoms out again between 1-5 days following complete metabolisation of the MDMA. Also, if you can, follow your appetite and sleep patterns.

I would avoid Vit C, but that's because of the conflicting reports I've seen as to it's mechanism on tolerance, but I would definitely use another anti-oxidant. Give me a couple of days and I'll post my cocktail to compare :)

Anyways, in continuation to some points I made previously about the damage to dopaminergic terminals, the problem here is caused by an alteration in the functioning of dopamine re-uptake monoamine systems, and the lack of inhibition of the oxidisation process in the synapse. By not preventing the breakdown of the constituent chemicals in the synapse, damage to terminal buttons, dendites, and also the flow to and from ion channels would be disrupted, overloaded or permanently damaged. Here, the problem seems to be, the more MDMA works on the dopamine systems, the less likely it is that you're going to feel quite as good the next time round with the same dose. Using 5-HTP or any other metabolite will not cause a reduction in harm in the dopaminergic systems. And, I can't see how a problem with the re-uptake of dopamine could cause oxidation to serotonergic systems. Finding a supplement which acts specifically to reduce the interference to the monoamine re-uptake terminals seems to be the only way to stop any harm to the pre and post synpatic neuron. hhhmmm.....no idea what that could be. Any bio-chemists? I'd need to know the chemical responsible for causing the interferance first, and then seek the antedote. Fuck this is hard!

More later! I gotta sleep!

[tripitika]

I would avoid Vit C, but that's because of the conflicting reports I've seen as to it's mechanism on tolerance, but I would definitely use another anti-oxidant. Give me a couple of days and I'll post my cocktail to compare :)

I've seen a few conflicting reports on the question of vitamin C and mdma tolerance. A study discussed here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article3.shtml) shows that vitamin c can actually reduce ones tolerance to the drug. Or, at least, a rat's tolerance.

"A paper published in early 2001 by Shankaran, Yamamoto, and Gudelsky not only confirmed the previous work showing that antioxidants prevent serotonin depletion, but found that rats given ascorbic acid (vitamin C) with their MDMA and then given another dose of MDMA a week later had stronger effects during the second experience than rats who did not receive ascorbic acid the first week. This means that antioxidants administered with MDMA may not only reduce neurotoxicity, but may also decrease the reduction in effects experienced with a second dose a week later."

But, I've heard the opposite as well (though I can't seem to locate any of said research at the moment). In any case, I think I'll use grapeseed extract (possibly blueberry extract), vitamin e, and alpha lipoic acid as antioxidants in my next experiment. I'll also skip the pre-loading with 5-htp (it gets metabolized so quickly that it seems rather useless). As for the post-load, I'll continue with the antioxidants and add the 5-htp. No crash yet from Monday's roll, so the 5-htp seems somewhat effective (last 100mg dose was taken yesterday evening). Sleep is normal. Appetite is normal. Mood is still rather elevated. Perhaps the crash is yet to come... But, for the moment, my brain is happy. And I'll take what I can get.

[queerninja]

Thanks Triptika, awesome info on the Erowid site!

Sleep, appetite normal and mood good. Sounds ace to me man :) With 1-5 days being the distribution of the onset of serotonin bottoming out, I'd say you were probably not gonna experience the trough. I think you're right on the vit c. I'm going to avoid it, and seeing as other anti-oxidants will do the trick with the dopaminergic side of things, why bother risking any vit c?

And by the way...WOW on the free radical reduction in the presence of Vitamin C in the rats. Gonna go over the Erowid article properly tonight.

Nice one :)

[cereus]

i seen a few too many reports on levitation and real magick to agree. i never had any amazing first hand experiences, but credible sources have caught incredible things on video. i think there is less of a difference between whats physical and mental then what we have all come to believe... everything in our existence can be interpreted via chemical brain stimulation, which includes physical functioning.

Yes I actually agree with you to some ekstent. I am no atheist but definitively not Christian, I believe in spirits and to some degree magic, but is a sceptic. I definitively believe that the world can contain large contradictions or things that do not easily explain, and our so-called real world is not the only reality we can interact with.
I mean the background I come from is full of a kind of supernatural density. I lived the first five years of my life in a haunted house and my mother clamed to levitate wilts communicating with her dead father in her sleep on one occasion, and with my father as a witness holding her down, he is a bit unsure of what happened but clamed that at the time he was half a sleep so he might have hallucinated the whole incident.
And my family and in a way the old community of the area I come from clamed to often in the past to have a kind of premonition called "vardøger" it is when you here a person arrive a half hour before they actually arrive, the old women used to put the coffee on the stove when this happened.