Mitragyna speciosa aka Kratom

[EROCx1]

I am surprised not to see much discussion about Kratom here. It is one of my favorite ethnobotanicals. Kratom is 100% legal in most country's, In fact its only illegal where it grows in the islands of Southeast Asia. Its pharmacology is similar to Opiates with analgesic properties comparable to codeine and has significantly less chances of addiction and no known lethal overdoses in humans. Its non-toxic and safe compared to other substances with similar actions. Its been successfully used to treat several forms of addiction. Proving a safe and natural alternative to methadone for treating opiate addiction. Kratom can be used to taper off other psychoactive dependencies as well.

In low doses it is stimulating and in high doses sedating. Its a highly effective pain reliever and is pretty euphoric too. If you have good leaf, 6-8 grams is a good dose. IMHO grinding and consuming the leaf material is better then making tea from it. Extracts are also available. I carry top quality Kratom at GaianBotanicals.com (http://gaianbotanicals.ecrater.com/category.php?cid=158440). Another good quality about Kratom is you can function pretty well on it with no obvious signs of being under the influence of anything. If you have never tried it and your into this type of botanical, I recommend you give it a try. To learn more, check out Daniel Siebert's Kratom Users Guide (http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html)

Peace,
E

[Xochipilli2012]

Hiya EROCx1!

I mentioned elsewhere that I was cruising on a Kratom high and that I would share more about it with you later. Well here's later--and not at all hush, hush, on the QT, etc.

With the little bit of research I did online I had to come up with a dosing strategy that would be effective, yet reasonably safe, given all known parameters. While I had read on Daniel Siebert's site (http://sagewisdom.org) that Kratom doesn't have a lethal known OD limit, there have been accounts of people getting uncomfortable taking too much.

My methodology was flawed in that I mixed 1 gram of 15x concentrate with a level tablespoon of powder, as I had no scale available to weigh it. I read that 1 gram of such concentrate is enough for most people to feel something but that some people have more interesting experiences on 2-3 grams of this concentrate. As I only had powdered Kratom to supplement it, I figured 3 grams or so of powder might be about right, if you assume that 6 grams would be a good "dose" and with "half" a "good dose" with 15x concentrate, a "half-dose" of powder would be good supplement. My logic was probably flawed, but that's what I was thinking.

I also looked for info on volume/weight relationships for Kratom powder and I found something on Edot that listed something like 3.4 grams/tablespoon. So that's where I got the 1 tablespoon measurement from.

But wait, there's more! I also read that grapefruit juice was known to potentiate the effects of opiates--and that some people thought white worked better than pink--and others thought orange juice would do the trick. I didn't learn why this worked, but as I intended to wash down the powder and extract with something, I figured--why not pink grapefruit juice?

So I put all the powder and extract in a 6 ounce glass, added the GF juice while stirring to turn the mud into something more like liquid. Once I got it fairly stirred in, I chugged it, and it was not unpleasant in texture or taste, unlike what I read. I expected some of the material to cling to the glass, which it did, so I added GF juice a couple more times, mixing then chugging until most of the material was in my belly. I did this on an empty stomach.

I was feeling palpable opiod effects within 30 minutes, and they continued to build over a two-hour period. I was actually astonished at how powerful the effects were, and I actually didn't really like them. I was too numb and didn't get the warmy, semi-stoned feeling I've gotten from oxycodone, or opium pod tea in the past. I should note that I'm not a big opiate fan. I far prefer herb, mushrooms, or MDMA. But one of the best highs I ever had was on morphine after surgery in 1990, and I've smoked opiated thai and the aforementioned tea and oxy, and enjoyed them all.

But I felt I must have "o.d.'d" with the Kratom. I got slight tinges of nausea at around the four hour mark--at which point I felt just as stoned as I did at 2 hours. By 5.5 hours I started to wretch--but there was nothing to vomit. I had consumed some ginger, as well as a couple cups of mint tea during the preceding hours to calm my stomach, but none of that stuff came up. I got control of the nausea after 3-5 minutes of dry heaving, mostly as an act of will. I had started around 11 p.m. in the evening, expecting I would crash by 2 or 3 a.m. I didn't feel safe to lie down, so I sat in a kind of meditative posture with my back straight as I watched the entire 4th Season of the L-Word on DVD stoned on Kratom. Watching TV gave me something to focus on, and when I wasn't feeling sick, the buzz wasn't too bad. But I mostly wanted it to be over from 2-hours onward.

When I finally got to sleep about 13 hours after taking it (around noon the following day) I was still very much feeling its effects.

I think I would be willing to try it again someday, but only after getting a scale and starting with a much lower dose. I was astonished at how powerful this unregulated herb turned out to be.

I purchased my Kratom from GaianBotanicals (http://www.gaianbotanicals.com/), I received it very promptly and discretely, and while had nothing to compare it to, it seemed that the quality was very good given the uncertainties around actual dosage. (If it was shit, I assume I wouldn't have had as strong an experience.) I have to commend EROCx1 on his excellent commitment to customer service, and I would definitely consider doing business with his company again in the future.

Thanks EROCx1!

[VictoriaPandora]

Kratom can definitely have purging effects, especially the first time you try it. I have heard many recipes for tea, most of them seemingly focused on masking the unpleasant taste. Personally I really like the taste of kratom...(I am part goat probably:)

I find the best way to take it is just eat the leaves. Little pinches at a time over a period of half an hour or so, like maybe with your morning coffee while getting through your e-mail. The perfect thing IMO about this method is you know exactly when you've reached a good dose.

I have made kratom tea for friends with aches and pains and they are always amazed by the pain relieving properties. I can't help but think the only reason it isn't illegal is because it's still on the low down. I bet if the toad licker up in KC had a bag of kratom on his nightstand they would be looking into it right now.

I order my kratom from a different source, I did take note that Erok's was a little cheaper, not by much, but some. I was wondering if it was a clean as what I am currently getting... mostly leaf and very few stems. My supplier cleans the kratom but they also send me the stems and random leaves too as free samples and they are great for tea.

Xochipilli2012 I think your dose was way too high, especially for a first try... if you do it again just get the leaf and chew it slowly, it's great for a toothache also using this method.

I have also heard grapefruit juice really intensifies the effects due to the maio's, so your probably REALLY double dosed:)

[Xochipilli2012]

Xochipilli2012 I think your dose was way too high, especially for a first try... if you do it again just get the leaf and chew it slowly, it's great for a toothache also using this method.

I have also heard grapefruit juice really intensifies the effects due to the maio's, so your probably REALLY double dosed:)

Hey Sister VP!

Thanks for the advice...maybe I'll give her another try. I'm pretty good with weird tastes--I generally enjoy the taste of dried cubensis, for instance, and what I could taste of the K this time around didn't seem awful at all...HBW seeds are the clear exception, however. Thinking about the taste makes me want to wretch :(.

Also, I'm really still pondering whether opiates are my thing, after this recent experience. However, I did get some Oxy after my recent surgery, and that stuff was not too bad.

Nice to know you're a fan of the Kratom, Victoria! If you have any other recommendations, bring 'em on...like what you like to do when your chewing the K leaf. Sit under a tree and listen to birds? Watch a good film? Get a massage? GIVE a massage? Read a book? Enjoy a hot tub? Star gaze on your back with a pair of 7x50 binoculars? Inquiring potential Kratom chewers would like to know. ;)

I've not been having too many tooth aches of late--after putting thousands of dollars into getting my teeth fixed this year, I'm pretty invested in taking care of them. (The K would have come in handy last year!)

But there may be other pleasures of Kratom that don't come immediately to my urban mind. Any suggestions from anyone experienced with this plant would be much appreciated.

By the by--are you the same Victoria that listens to the C-Realm and to whom KMO has responded in the past, and perhaps the same V who was mentioned on a recent Salon podcast? Just wondering--while there are probably lots of Victorias "out there" - women seem few and far between in the online places where entheogens and other sacraments are discussed.

Blessings...

[VictoriaPandora]

Yeah I am the ideological PITA KMO responded to a couple of times. That word ideology certainly has taken a bad rap lately.

And Lorenzo mentioned me also. I had been meaning to donate to Lorenzo's show for so long, his was the first podcast I ever listened to. I only just got my MP3 player last Christmas and I haven't really unplugged yet:)

This is what happened when I got my first dose of kratom. Someone had sent me a link to a "website" called Second Life. I really had no idea what it was and it seemed a lot of trouble to have to create a name and a character just to view the thing, but I went for it anyway. I had some merlot and my fist batch of kratom on the table beside me. I was chewing on the kratom and sipping the wine while making myself through a rather complicated orientation island on Second Life, (which I had sussed by then, didn't appear to just be a website:)

So with my game character somewhat in tact I set out to figure out how to get off the island an onto the mainland... that's when I saw the "fly" button. By then I was definitely under the influence of red wine, kratom and a virtual world. So, I hit the fly button and off I went over a vast ocean, flying straight into the sunset. I was so immersed in the game that I really didn't think much about the kratom, I just knew I was completely taken with this new ability to fly! So I flew and I flew and I flew. I think I may have been under the impression I could possibly fly all the way to the sun... But there came a moment when my real life compass malfunctioned and I started to feel really fairly ill and spinny. I did remember from a cruise I took once that I am prone to seasickness. I can sail a small boat on choppy water all day long with no problem, but the big boats are insidious. It was that exact same feeling. Well the wine and I were soon parted, along with I assume most of the dose of kratom. (Which I had not been paying much attention to, but I am guessing maybe about six tablespoons or so.) As soon as that was all purged I felt fine again, sat back down and flew for another several hours:)
I don't do anything in particular with the kratom, I notice staring closed eyes into the sun gives amazingly nice closed eye visuals. It's also energetic for a good pilates workout too.ALL your suggestions sound pretty good, with or without kratom! (I am chewing some right now which probably means this post will be longer than I initially intended.)
It doesn't come across on the same frequency as pharmaceutical pain medication, the plant seems to have a much higher vibe. I'd have to say I am definitely a fan of opiates but they don't come my way often, (which is probably a good thing, haha.)
In a couple of instances I've used kratom as a nice pick me up, say if I have to drive to the airport really early, or if I am on the road late at night and feel sleepy. I have never found kratom to impair my driving or ability to concentrate. I find it odd that it is outlawed in some countries, it is different to, but doesn't seem any stronger than caffeine. If I have too much I think it can really give me the jitters. I have never experienced any sedating effects from kratom, it is always energetic. It does synergise well with alcohol if both are used in moderation.
I have heard of people who chew a lot of kratom combining it with grapefruit juice to make the batch last longer. I can't find any organic grapefruit juice so I keep postponing getting any at all.
I have never had HBW, is it worth the terrible taste? I have a load of morning glory seeds here that I harvested from my mums garden but I haven't done a thing with them yet. Got a good looking Datura growing in the kitchen right now also. Sadly I killed my sally plant, I think I pampered it to death, and I have not been able to get another one. I really want to grow one and develop a more intimate relationship to that plant.
Nice reading you Xochipilli, such a clever choice for a screen name:)

[EROCx1]

I order my kratom from a different source, I did take note that Eroc's was a little cheaper, not by much, but some. I was wondering if it was a clean as what I am currently getting... mostly leaf and very few stems. My supplier cleans the kratom but they also send me the stems and random leaves too as free samples and they are great for tea. My Kratom is very good quality, always fresh with usually minimal stems. Ive only received good feedback about all my botanical inventory. Please see my thread on Entheogen.com (http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10015) Should any one from from TheGrowReport/forums choose to try my store. (http://www.gaianbotanicals.com/) Please mention your membership in the check out notes and I will be certain to show your order some extra love.

Thanks!
E

[BlackBeauty]

Hrmmm...is Kratom legal in Australia?

Do you ship to Australia?

[EROCx1]

Hrmmm...is Kratom legal in Australia?

Do you ship to Australia?Kratom is a controlled substance in Thailand, Australia, Malaysia and Myanmar. Ouch, I thought the US had the worst prohibition laws. What a shame, it is the most effective legal medicinal herb I have ever encountered. Sorry, I can not break the law :(

[BlackBeauty]

Not at all EROCx1 - thankyou for the information :p

Even salvia is illegal here as are many other lesser-known substances so someone must be onto us!

[CrackaJacka]

Hey I was looking on EveryoneDoesIT.co.uk and I found that they have a Kratom Resin. Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm thinking of buying some but thought it might be better if I got some info on this stuff.

[EROCx1]

Hey I was looking on EveryoneDoesIT.co.uk and I found that they have a Kratom Resin. Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm thinking of buying some but thought it might be better if I got some info on this stuff. Most resins are only about 5x. They are typically evaporated decoctions, which one can make themselves very easily. Basically just follow the instructions for the "tea" then put it in a Pyrex dish with the most surface area as possible and evaporate it under a fan. Then scape it with a razor and you got Kratom Resin. A better home made extract is evaporated tincture. If you want something better then basic resins, I suggest 40% TPA extract. But in my opinion whole leaf is the most euphoric once your body is acclimated to it. Also the least expensive.

[CrackaJacka]

Hey EROCx1 thanks man I think I'll look into that 40. Whole leaf sounds like a good idea too so whichever is a better deal and is higher quality I'll grab. Say do you know the best place to get whole Kratom leaves?

[EROCx1]

Hey EROCx1 thanks man I think I'll look into that 40. Whole leaf sounds like a good idea too so whichever is a better deal and is higher quality I'll grab. Say do you know the best place to get whole Kratom leaves?No problem CrackaJacka, I carry the very finest Kratom (http://gaianbotanicals.ecrater.com/category.php?cid=158440) for a good price on GaianBotanicals.com. (http://www.gaianbotanicals.com/) I am not only saying this because its my store, its true. You dont have to take only my word for it, please see my feedback on Entheogen.com (http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10015). These guys know good ethnobotanicals too.

Leaf is always the best deal, because you are not paying for solvents, labor and the manufactures profit on top of the retailers. I like to have extract on hand because it is convenient. After >8 years of working with Kratom, about a year ago toss & wash was becoming unpleasant to get down. So now I only use gel caps of powdered leaf and / or 40% TPA extract. Every once in awhile I make my own extract just to satisfy my alchemical fantasy's.

[CrackaJacka]

Thanks man! I'll deffinetly buy some stuff from you my friend. And what from your store would you recomend for stress-relief?

[EROCx1]

Thanks man! I'll deffinetly buy some stuff from you my friend. And what from your store would you recomend for stress-relief? Kratom relieves my stress, but I try not to use it habitually. For occasional use I would recommend Phenibut. For more regular use Kava, Theobromine or Magnolia extract. Daily would be Jiaogulan. Blue Lotus tea helps some. If the stress is daily and there is nothing you can do about it now. I would reserve the occasional use medicines for really bad days and some calming teams and gentle adaptogens for daily use.

During particularly stressful times in my life, I alternate some of the above to avoid building a tolerance and a new habit. Also I incorporate relaxing teas and as I prepare and consume these teas. I make an effort to calm myself, re-focus my thoughts. Take some good deep breaths and reflect on positive things and contemplate solutions to my problems. Stress is a mental state which can lead to medical conditions, one must use their minds to manage this stress, for not only the sake of their happiness but for their health. Botanical allies and medicines can help. But ultimately one must manage the stress. At least those are my thoughts about it. Ive just come down off a stress cycle which just happened to end today. Also remember these things come in cycles. That always helps me.

best wishes to you,
E

[CrackaJacka]

Thanks for the wise advice E. I'll look into some of those. My idea was once a week use so any of those would be good for just once a week right?

[EROCx1]

Thanks for the wise advice E. I'll look into some of those. My idea was once a week use so any of those would be good for just once a week right? I use Kratom once a week. Sometimes twice for pain management. Phenibut develops rapid tolerance so I like heavy doses rarely. Kava root and its extracts are always nice, but I space that out too. Thats why I like having a buffet of Ethnobotanicals on standby. I feel by rotating them it avoids tolerance and the chances of making a habit of using certain ones. I had to break myself from a few bad habits which I would hate to repeat. Alcohol was the hardest, harder then an addictive pain reliever I was once prescribed with. So I space everything out. Maybe I'm just fooling myself and am really just an ethnobotaniphile. I am not a medical expert nor an example of how others should live. But so far, this discipline has worked well for me. I would recommend starting with Kratom and Phenibut. See how they work for you.

[CrackaJacka]

Will do, E :D

[RedEyedMonster]

I use kratom regularly. Its my favourite thing to do, execpt Bud of course! :D

I get mine from Divine Shaman. Hes a UK vendor who has some nice stuff.

I have just had a few grams of enhanced Bali and a bit of UEI.